Increase the number of horses per member and level.

  • Administrators

    This system is in place to do exactly what it does- limit the number of competing horses a member can have in one show at one time. This not only keeps the size of the documents we use to run shows on in check, it also keeps the economy healthy and balanced. Take the largest discipline, Dressage- 65 members entered the last show with a whopping 1,012 horses making it into the results. Equus paid out $477,000 total in winnings; however they received $380,850 in fees, meaning they actually only spent $96,150 in winnings. Keep in mind, this is nearly $100k in new money entering the economy, money that is only siphoned back out of the economy through the purchase of mainsite credits. We can do a simple average on these numbers- each member that entered received roughly $1,479 in profit, and each horse earned roughly $95 in profit.

    Keeping these numbers, let's say we doubled the amount of horses each member could enter in this show (10 horses per level). So, we then have each member able to enter 100 horses total instead of 50 (few members actually fill up every slot in every level but let's keep it for the sake of simplicity) We can double the entries for this show- 2024 horses on a single document instead of 1012 (and you'd be correct if you thought that might be a tough load for the documents to bear)

    But, doc sizes aside, the real problems come from show payouts. Staying with a simple double of the $96,150 in member profit Equus paid out for this show, we now have a flood of $192,300 entering the economy from a single dressage show. Let's be generous and round that up to $200k, and say just for kicks that the other 2 largest disciplines (Show Jumping and Eventing) have a similar profit for members every show. That leaves us with 600k a month in new money entering the economy ONLY from Competition Committee shows, ONLY in these 3 disciplines.

    We would likely see a staggering rise in inflation as the worth of our money plummeted, as we would still only have the sale of main site credits to siphon off the flood of money entering the economy. This doesn't even factor in the bank account of new members, which add 25k to the economy whenever they join. (We are averaging, last I checked, about a member every 2 days. Roughly 375k added to the economy every month.) Unless we added something to combat it, such as re-introducing rare fees (which I suspect would be wildly unpopular) or doubling the price of horse credits (again, people probably wouldn't be ecstatic), the economy would probably crash. And this is only from increasing the limit by 5 horses per level.

    Crazy to think that 5 little horses per level could do so much damage, but the people who built Equus really did cover their bases pretty damn well :stuck_out_tongue:

  • Administrators

    ^ !!!
    Our competition Committee is currently hosting a show for each of our 38 disciplines every month.
    Additionally, every month we have a member hosted show for each discipline. (Rarely a discipline doesn't get a member hosted show due to lack of volunteer hosts, but most months see every show having a host).
    This comes to a tidy 76 shows a month on equus, in which you can enter from 25 horses (new member host) to 50 horses (CC show).
    CC shows alone allow for a whopping 1900 horses monthly per member - or 190 in level1 only, if you're not invested in the discipline yet.
    If you're struggling to fit your whole stable into one show you might consider other approaches? Such as leasing out, retiring, selling some horses, or simply exploring other disciplines!
    If you're dead set on entering all your horses in one discipline and it just isn't working for you then I can't do more than suggest you reevaluate how your current play style fits our game, I'm sorry.

    Best of luck!

  • Competition Committee

    As someone that has 400+ horses I feel like I can poke my nose in here (yes I literally do have more than 400 horses). And I pretty much only compete in the big 3 disciplines, eventing being my largest with 145 horses. It's a bit of a challenge to have this many horses, but with tons of documents in my drive it's possible. If you feel overwhelmed by the horses you have, then downsizing might be a good idea like Elsie pointed out. I can handle this many horses because I'm not obsessed with points, I don't care how many points my horses have, I don't care how many bonuses they give and so on. I used to be obsessed with those things as a lot of members here are, but for me that wasn't fun. So maybe you (like I did) needs to take a step back and think about what you want to do with your game, what is it that drove you to this community to begin with? What is it that you enjoy the most?

    I think those are the best advices I can give considering both Nikki and Elsie covered the reasons for why it is this way. And if you want any advice on how to organize your pixels, then feel free to DM me on slack or send me a PM here on the forum (or if you are just curious on how the heck I manage to keep 400 horses active) :slight_smile:

  • I also have just around 50 horses in dressage and show jumping, a bit less in eventing. Getting help from members to lease them for shows is also a good idea, I would also have a bit less horses if I didn't lease for others. Also thinking of downsizing and retiring horses after a certain point. 5 horses per level is a hassle, yes, but then again if you think it's not even realistic for a single stable to take 50 horses to a RL show, let alone 100 xD

  • The problem of looking for leasing in the disciplines where I have the problem is that, as you have pointed out, there are many active people who have horses competing in those same disciplines. Yes, I might find members for some horses, but perhaps not for all, sadly.

    Reduction is not an option for me. I really enjoy competing with the horses I buy (and with the few that I breed), and I still have about 20 horses to register at the main site.

    Maybe my solution is to make some discipline changes (I guess looking for disciplines with few participants).

    @Anna-Hertler I do not seek to breeding and sell offspring. In a way, it's almost like playing "alone." I do not look for horses with big bonuses. It's fun to register them in competitions and see how far they can go.

    Yes, surely I will make the change of discipline in some horses.

    Thank you all for your comments. I really appreciate your views. When I proposed to expand the number of horses I did not think well what consequences it might have. I was selfish, I suppose.

  • Consider sending dressage horses into classical dressage! :) That's what I'm doing!

  • @Lidija-Rotherford I have a classic knabstrupper and a lusitano that will change to those disciplines. I am thinking maybe to change some Andalusians, too. Some of my eventing horses change to TREC, and another horse to carriage driving. I still have to check my jumpers.

  • You might look into Field Hunter Trials and Hunter Paces. (Think Cross Country)
    I've recently decided I'm going to have my Irish Draughts focus on these two disciplines and Carriage Driving.

    Lusitanos are also perfect for Working Equitation. I'm hoping to add a few at some point in the near future to compete in that discipline.

  • Competition Committee

    @Irene-Crownguard I think we play pretty similar then. I play "alone" too, but I do love the breeding part of the game, it's actually my favourite part of it. But I don't sell horses, they actually don't really leave my stable at all, and I have a terrible time trying to retire my pixels xD So that is the reason for why I have ended up with 400+ horses (439 to be exact).

  • @Caroline-Delacort In total I change 18 horses (between show jumping, dressage and eventing), divided between Field Hunters Trials, Hunter Paces and Show Hunters (some warmbloods), Classical Dressage for Knabstrupper and Lusitano, Working Equitation for an Andalusian stallion and Carriage Driving for my Haflinger mare. The remaining 5 horses will be registered in TREC.

    It has been a little difficult to choose who kept their discipline and who did not. I really did not know what kind of discipline is Working Equitation (I know it for "Doma Vaquera" xD), so it is possible that I register some more Andalusians there.

  • I honestly won't feel this pain until I get my new horses registered on the mainsite(which I'm aiming for end of the year because horse token are expensive and I'm horrible at keeping track of my own record)
    I currently only have 1 high level eventer(thank goodness) and a few high level jumpers which is honestly expected in that case, however when I look at my chart and see how many of my horses will reach CCI**** or Grand Prix or <enter high level for other disciplines> it's going to add up, and also be expensive as well. I currently have 19 show jumpers, 14 eventers, 8 hunters(field hunters included), and 11 in dressage(classical dressage included). It's not hitting my hard yet but it's because all my horses are spaced out right now, some are at their max level or closing in to their max level or aren't even there yet.

    In general I feel like if you space out how many you want to enter at a time you should be fine, I know most shows make it difficult because they don't host up the the highest level so horses have to compete in a lower level which would screw up your system. But the budget for shows is actually killing me, I know most people can EASILY make a pretty penny with the winnings of a show but I surely don't since I currently only have small herds of horses go into shows as of now. I am not even the slightest prepared for when I have to start planning out who goes into what show x.x

    Now for general experience :p
    On a small community(I can't remember what forum) there was a show that allowed unlimited entries in it per member, I believe I took advantage of that and basically all my horses placed close enough to one another that it was completely unfair. When you look at how popular some stables are with a lot of horses, that compete in the same general discipline, if all 59 of my horses were show jumpers and on the same level(let's just say puddle) I'm pretty sure my horses would place commonly in the top 6(I highly doubt it) and I'd have majority of the winnings of it all too.
    This was my worse example but I swear I hope I make sense

  • @Caroline-Delacort said in Increase the number of horses per member and level.:

    Lusitanos are also perfect for Working Equitation. I'm hoping to add a few at some point in the near future to compete in that discipline.

    I had the exact same thought.

  • Just wanted to throw out there, the cap on horses entered helps also with members who do not have as many horses entered. If you have 50 horses entered into level 1 alone and most members have 6-7. The chances of others placing is quite slim and in return, their horses are not earning points or money prizes. We had this problem on the old forum in the Eventing Society. Offaly and I decided to put a cap on how many horses can be entered into each level because some members were placing very high in most classes and others who entered less horses had a very slim chance against those who entered 30-40 horses into that level. It seemed like it was completely unfair. I think the cap is very fair. Leasing and considering other disciplines that are similar are very good options and I highly recommend that over no cap or an increased cap to keep it fun and fair for every member :)

  • Administrators

    Not answering repeatedly to slam your idea that we add more entries, but just because I'm a huge nerd and genuinely like talking about this shit.

    On Equus all classes have 10 to 14 horses (filled with phantoms to hit 10, and then at 14 max before they're split).
    5 entries per member per level wasn't just a number we pulled out of thin air - it's half of the minimum class size.
    This is important because shows on Equus are weighted to make sure that members don't lose stupid amounts of money trying to enter them on a regular basis!
    Each entry fee is 7.5% of the total winnings for the class, so lets use lvl1 as an example.
    If you found a nice quiet discipline you could enter 10 horses in lvl1. This would cost you $75 per horse in fees ($750 total) and you'd be guaranteed to take home 1k for a tidy $250 profit, as well as getting all 40 (10+8+7+6+5+4) points for your horses.
    Sounds... unfair? We thought so too :D
    Even more so when you consider that the same thing at lvl10 is 7.5k in fees, and 2.5k in pure profit every time you filled a class, and there are tons of quiet enough disciplines where you could do this every show.

    So, 5 horses per member per class. You can half-fill a class on your own, which gives you a decent chance at getting the goodies without winning being assured.

    If anyone finds this nerdery interesting then omg hit me up holmes this is what my brain is maddeee offfff.
    To everyone else - thanks for putting up with me :)

  • @Elsie-Spectre We should be friends because I too find these things interesting. I love bouncing ideas for the better of the community :)

  • @Sinead-Hannigan But entry limits has always been around?

  • @Merida-Dahmer hmm I remember judging a show and there was someone who had placed in almost every spot. And we were talking about limiting entries in levels. It’s been a long time ago but I definitely do remember.

    Edit: my bad. I am an idiot. I thought that was the situation but it must’ve been a different issue

  • Banned

    It seems like such a rush these days to get 100+ horses to a certain number, breed, repeat?

    we used to only have about 10 horses each, now everyone has 50+ and breeds and then100+ and breeds and its rush rush rush rush.

    The cap has always been around, for many reasons..

    Equus-sims as it was was designed for playing with a few sims horses , not rushing hundreds through theoretical levels on a document sheet.

    thats just my two pennies.

    Show down my loves and enjoy your pixel ponies !

  • I personally am a player who enjoys rushing my horses through documents, so I figured I could offer perspective on this topic in the thread! :trophy:

    I own around 160 horses, not as impressive as some but the reason my numbers are so high are pretty simple - I just love them all. It's not a lack of love or enjoyment that pushes me to use the system to the fullest, nor is it a desire to rush - I'm actually quite slow, heh - but it's because I absolutely adore seeing them succeed, and seeing that success manifested through impressive pedigree sprawls and the bonuses it offers is incredibly satisfying as a player who's worked constantly for that exact goal. They're not numbers to me, they're my pons and I love 'em. I just happen to also love the fancy numbers that are tied to them. If there weren't any fancy numbers, I'd still love them, and I would probably still have this many :joy:

    Part of the reason why EQ's system is great because you don't HAVE to choose the 'mainstream'. Nobody is forcing you, certainly not me with my moderately sized crop. You can totally go all out and have 400+ horses under your wing or just operate small with less than 20. You'll still be successful -- My close friends in this community taught me the lesson that you need to seek out your success and happiness individually, determining what it means to you, and you alone. That's not directed at anyone, of course. Just a general statement that feels good to get off my chest. If you find happiness by having a small stable of foundations, you totally have my support. If you find it in having 25+ babies running around your stables that you struggle to fit into show levels you'll find an equal amount of support from me!

    .....On the topic of more horses per level though, I'm perfectly fine with the current system as most are -- It's more of a challenge, having to sort them into levels and ensure that everyone is able to compete. Brings a new depth to the gameplay, for me, and there are certainly other options to consider like leasing or otherwise. I personally forget to lease out most of the time, so some of my 'big three' horse teams are on rotation and switch every show, which is easier to handle as it's all kept in-house then without exterior variables.

  • Competition Committee

    @Luke-Teth You really have some great points here! The reason for why I have 400+ horses is because

    1. I love creating horses in CAS
    2. I love my pixels way too much so I can't let them go either!
    3. I am not obssesed with points and such, if I had been I would have been screwed. Because let's face it, I have 30 horses in level 1 Eventing, it will take a serious amount of time to get them past that, but to me that doesn't matter.
      So the overall thing I'm saying here is pretty much the same as you: It's your game and you alone decide how you wanna play it.

    And yes I am also all for keeping the competition system we have now. I already pay plenty enough in show fees, and if we raise the amount of horses allowed, then the fees would probably go up too xD

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