I dream of a Graveyard

  • I love Equus.

    Since the summer of 2014 I have shared some incredible memories with this community. This site has allowed me to explore avenues of creativity that I never knew I could. For the last few years EC has really blossomed, and truly it's been a privilege to watch that metamorphosis unfold. I hope to be able to share in further changes, developments, and adventures. Equus offers a very unique gaming experience that can't be replicated in your run of the mill browsers based simulation games, but in that something different, there is something that, at times, feels missing. Something that I have come to realize is a sort of slow discontentment creeping in around the edges. I do not feel challenged by the game anymore.

    If I am being truthful I will admit I haven't felt a sense of challenge in a long time. While Equus isn't built on the premise of 'winning,' it is a game that allows for the inclusion of a huge variety of play styles. Truly the game doesn't just allow for a wide variety of play styles but it embraces them. Please make no mistake, I have no desire to "win" Equus. In fact, it's the illusion of winning that I love, the thrilling chase of victory, I want to forever run the race of chasing success. It's hard to run down that feeling where there are no hard limits of the game. Not even loosely imposed ones. (Outside of show limits which are very much a good thing)

    I would like to propose adding a Hard Cull feature to the game. What exactly do I mean? I imagine this feature working something like this:

    Reclaims would remain as a default dumping grounds, however, a separate account would exist for horses intended to be removed from the game, or seen as officially "Deceased." In order for a horse to be deceased, you couldn't simply dump the horse in the account, you would need to give consent and verification to doing so. This, I feel like could be done by simply filling out an official Google Form for the account, and having each entry approved automatically (like registration). By filling out the form and having the horse removed from your account you consent that the horse is not able to be reclaimed by anyone, and is no longer showable.

    I feel like there is a certain stagnation with horses, many players are even still in the first 3-4 generations of their lines. Even original players! while capping pedigree bonuses has helped some players develop their lines and move off from eternally showing and breeding the same horses they started with, I think this could serve as a mechanism to help members feel safe in moving forward from those horses. Safe that no one will able to re-claim those horses, not even themselves.

    This could, in fact, serve as a branching off point for other positive effects, such as thinning the overall number of horses in shows, giving more value to newer and lower level horses as they are able to be more competitive. It's possible perhaps to even incentivize players to send horses off to the Graveyard by offering achievement points for doing so, like say $1,000 worth per horse or something.

    Thoughts? :horse:

  • Administrators

    I also like the idea of an account that cannot be reclaimed from, however this is unlikely to be added by a Google form/staff approval/staff removal process you proposed. For one, staff can only remove horses from people's accounts manually by going into the website's database, which currently can only be accessed by one person. For another, anyone can send a Google form anonymously- it would be easy for someone to pretend to be another member and have someone else's horses removed from their accounts, which would create obvious issues when someone realized their horses were missing, and then staff would have to decide if the removal was legitimate or not and then reverse the removal. We also cannot stop members from sending horses to accounts with our current mainsite. More likely, this would just be an account just like Reclaims except there would be absolutely no reclaims allowed from it. This way, only you can make the decision to remove a horse from your own account by sending it to this account. Staff has discussed re-adding an account like this, however in the past there have been issues with members still attempting to reclaim from these accounts. An account like this would need to be created with member understanding that it allows NO reclaims. I have brought this up with the other admins for further discussion.

    It is and always has been my opinion that your interaction with Equus should be what brings you joy. I very much doubt that a simple account to remove horses would bring you the sense of challenge you speak of- after all, you can give horses away. Empty their profiles and send them to reclaims as-is, if you want them to really seem 'deleted'. I think perhaps you should instead look at what might interest you beyond what you've already accomplished; pick up a new discipline that doesn't have many members, making breeding successful new generations more of a challenge. Find a breed that has only a handful of horses in it and start breeding them. Give away your money in raffles in challenges, so you have to be more careful how you spend. If challenge is what you seek, I don't think you'll find it by just removing old horses when you've already accomplished so much by owning those horses in the first place. Rather, look for it in new places, ground you haven't yet tread.

  • I do not think that having a hard removal account will fix the feelings that I have, just that its something iv wanted for a long time and I think it would add to game mechanics.
    I appreciate your suggestions! However getting involved in more disciplines really doesn't interest me, and while I very much love to be challenged I don't think I should have to restart on the site to find some measure of challenge, and simply clearing horses profiles out is in no way fair to people who have those horses in their pedigrees, iv always found it distasteful when people do that :(

    (I had no idea who you were at first lol guess iv been on break a tad too long)

  • I actually like the idea with a graveyard for our pixel pons a lot, because for some of my first generation horses (who are 20 years +) the time will sooner or later come and I really do not want to dump them into reclaims. Also, I want to keep my game and play style as realistic as possible, which means that at some point I have to let go of them. So, for the story-play part, I think a kind of graveyard, which also gives us the possibility to state how the horse deceased is generally a good idea. Yet, what I worry about is, not that I do not have access to the deceased horse anymore, but that it will in some way affect their offspring. What I fear is that the horse will somehow be deleted or any information about it will be lost and that is something I really would not want. But for realism purpose, I think adding in a feature, where memebers can let go of their horses is a good idea. Maybe it would be possible to add an extra side to every members main side profile? Something like a "wall of fame" or "in remembrance", where we can put our deceased horses, but still are able to have an eye on them?

  • While I like the idea, I'm with Breanna. If its a horse someone purchased was bred for them and they aren't the creator...I can see it becoming a huge deal if someone did this and did not inform the original creator of such. We all have our sale/import/breeding rules and while EC staff doesn't enforce them we all hope they will be followed out of respect for eachother. There are however always a few bad apples out there and if someone say registers the horse, sends it to this account and it's hard culled....the creator really doens't have the chance to even recreate the horse.

    Another issue with this, if a hard cull took place that also will effect linked pedigrees and bonus points.

  • Noooooo I am not at all suggesting that profiles be deleted. I definitely do not want pedigrees messed up either 💖 ideally the horses would simply be inaccessible and located in the Graveyard account.

    As for the situation Breanna mentioned, I feel that falls under the risk of selling or breeding a horse. Once you no longer own the profile it's really not up to the creator or breeder what happens to the horse. Which is exactly how things are now, you always run the risk of someone going inactive and that profile never being reclaimable to you anyway.

  • i'd love to be able to get my old and deceased horses off of my mainsite. Simply because i hate having 100 old and inactive horses there :grin:
    i never thought about a graveyard account tho. i always wondered if it'd be possible to get an extra tab on your profile to move your old horses to - like a retired or inactive tab ...
    But i guess it's impossible to add that, so an extra account would be the only way to get "rid" of them. I don't send my horses to the reclaimable account, even tho i know no one else could reclaim them, simply because i had issues adding horses from the reclaim account to my horses' pedigrees before (because it likes to add random spaces to the name and then the horse won't be linked in the offspring's pedigree)

    but then again.. barely anyone uses the mainsite anymore i guess? i think almost everyone has a stable sheet to enter shows, plan breedings, look at horses' infos etc. So we basically only use the mainsite to make profiles anyway :shrug:

  • As Maria said, I've been hoping for such a ''tab'' for retired horses on mainsite forever! I think it would be awesome to have our active horses separated from our retired/deceased ones. I don't know if that is possible tho.
    Regarding mainsite, I still use it a lot to have a overview of my horses. Not to enter them in shows, but for pedigree/geno/photo etc :smile:

  • Administrators

    Unfortunately there is no way for us to edit the current mane site to have a tab or any utilities to fulfill this feature.

    In the past we had a deceased horse account I believe, but people would regret the decision or a horse was sent there and the breeder wasn't notified and wanted it back instead of just killed off. Therefore that account and I believe a retired horse account were rolled into reclaims, which can be used as a graveyard if you so choose. If you have a concern about their breeder noticing, misunderstanding and attempting to reclaim the horse, the simple fix would be to DM them when you're going to make the decision :slight_smile:

    As a player I agree with those saying that we mostly use our sheets, and maybe a good addition to the sheets would be to add a graveyard tab. Game-play wise you can just retire the horse and while it becomes an eyesore (as someone who has 300+ horses on their mane site, I get it, I do), just ignore or mark the profiles. For a lot of us, the mane site is just a database with the official information of us and the horses linked to our account, the sheets and forums are where the actual growth and story lines are recorded. Unfortunately unless we get a new mane site, we won't get to be able to add more utilities and features to it so we just have to utilize it as best we can and go absolutely nuts with our sheets lol

  • I'm seconding (thirding? fourthing?) the graveyard idea. I feel like we all have so many horses at this point and no way of closing the book on their chapter other than sending to reclaims...which feels a bit distateful when you've had the horse four+ years!

    I understand all the potential drama over people wanting horses out of the account, but I've made and sold so many horses over the years that have done nothing that they are effectively deceased already :laughing: would rather them dead than hoarded for their prefix and doing nothing!

    The issue I can find is that it might be used as a 'if I don't want it nobody else can have it' account, and what's to stop people (angry breeders...) continuing to breed from these deceased horses? Or continue entering them in shows so their are no bad apples in their pedigree? :thinking: defeats the purpose of a deceased account really

    I really want something to do with my deceased horses, we've all so many that encouraging people to kill off their horses can only be a good thing. If you've been here years you've accumulated a lot of horses, and guilt stops you from sending them to reclaims even though you've competed them to 200 and they've done all that can be done with them.. but still they linger on like a bad smell on your main site :laughing: can we do a donation drive for a new main site?? :laughing:

    Just my thoughts, considering I've been complaining about this for years :laughing:

  • Moderation Committee

    This is not something I would use personally, but I can give my two cents from a staff point of view. Like Puck said, it would probably need to be pretty much the same as the reclaims account, except Equus won't allow anyone to reclaim from it. So basically as long as it doesn't require any more staff duties, then why not? (in my opinion). But yes, there will probably still be members breeding from those horses, because it will be close to impossible for staff to police that I believe, especially since you can say that you had straws left for the stallion you used for a breeding, or you did breed the foal before sending the horse to that account and so on. On the other hand, why send it away if you intend to still use the horse for breeding? xD

    Also, I think that those questions that we are asking here are the exact reason for why the deceased account was removed and turned into reclaims instead.

  • Not sure if this would work, but instead of changing anything on the main site, would it be possible to somehow have another database spreadsheet but for horses that are no longer active? Essentially, the deceased horse would be retired from all disciplines and unable to be reregged so that it can't be competed again (so if someone tried to put the horse through autoreg, it would throw up an error similar to what happens if a horse's outcross is impossible). It could be compiled using a google form so that it wouldn't add too much to the staff duties.

    I'm not sure if it would sort the breeding problem or not though, since I'm not sure if it would end up functioning retroactively if someone tried to reg a horse from a deceased parent, and it could upset people who have bought breedings from a horse and then gone to reg the offspring only to find that the parent is deceased.

  • Moderation Committee

    I think adding a main site account for deceased horses is less work for staff because if it was done like Puck said, all staff has to do is add a main site account and that is that. But adding another form means someone has to go over them and manually change the horses and it would work similar to how we handle retired horses, the only difference is that when they are deceased they are retired for good. So is it really worth adding more work on staff for a minor detail like that? As for the breeding part, it would need to work retroactively pretty much, otherwise we end up with more issues like you said xD But if it would work, it might be worth it.

    However, I think the whole idea behind the deceased account is to keep the main sites clean and not clogged up with horses we don't use xD

    EDIT: Altho, for us sheet nerds, maybe it's possible to sort of add your idea to our personal stable manager sheets?

  • Truthfully, along side the idea of a "Graveyard" though we have no way of adding new features to the main site unless we get a new one....is if when you"Boarded" a horse toa stable...it actually orgnized your manesite so that it put it into groups under the stables and each player had a "stable" named "Graveyard" or "Retirement Center" and once a player moved the horse there it was still under the owner but not an issue of reclaims.

    Idk that all probably made zero sense(since?)

  • @Marc-Sanders it does make sense. But you have to pay ~$100.000 for a new stable on the mainsite as far as i know. (?)
    and i'm not sure if EC members would like to spend so much money for a retirement barn they only use to organize their mainsite 🤔
    And not everyone would be able to afford it.

  • Also there are a few people with already three stables, so that it isn't even possible always to get a dtable only for that. Also I thought we shouldn't use the boarders feature, since we can't remove them ouerselves and staff also don't do it anymore.

  • I was saying it be a standard all EC members have not one that has to be bought. It would be a stable given to everyone to keep things more realistic.

  • Administrators

    Giving everyone extra stables to be the retirement barn and graveyard would be a lot of work and then boarder issues would become a problem again. That and you landing profile page would be no more sorted or clear than it already is. I'm just not sure if a mane site fix is possible with our current mane site, which will have to stay as is unless someone can donate time+experience or funding to hire someone.

  • @Blake-Bellanaris said in I dream of a Graveyard:

    Giving everyone extra stables to be the retirement barn and graveyard would be a lot of work and then boarder issues would become a problem again. That and you landing profile page would be no more sorted or clear than it already is. I'm just not sure if a mane site fix is possible with our current mane site, which will have to stay as is unless someone can donate time+experience or funding to hire someone.

    That would depending on how the mane site was built, if dreamweaver was used as the main way to build the site that's not a difficult way to work with the site.

  • Administrators

    We can't make any changes to the mainsite's functionality, and any ideas concerning changing our current mainsite are unfortunately out of the question. The only updates Janelle was able to do to it a few years ago was some cosmetic changes, a 'facelift' if you will. Since Janelle has left Equus, we are even more limited in what we can do with our mainsite.

    Again, if this idea were to be implemented in any capacity, it would be a simple new account titled Deceased that members can send horses to with the understanding that those horses are there for good, and cannot be reclaimed except perhaps under extraordinary circumstances, such as you were trying to send a horse to Declan Hoyos and accidentally clicked Deceased Horses, which you would need to prove with a bank note. Breeders, past owners, and anyone else wanting to reclaim the horse outside of those specific circumstances would be unable to.

    I can understand that this may make people nervous about selling horses for fear they'd be dumped into a Deceased Account and be unable to be retrieved, but I think this is a symptom of the larger problem Equus has about wanting to keep control over horses they've sold. If you make a decision to sell a horse, you are handing over control of that horse to another person. Full stop. You no longer get to decide what the horse does or where it goes, or if it gets sold on to another person who then stops being active, etc. It's a reality of selling that no matter who that horse gets sold to, it may no longer remain active, and that's a risk we all take whenever we make a decision to give up a horse.

  • Everyone hates when I add my two cents.
    Where I like this idea.. I dont like it.
    I am a quiet breeder. Meaning now and again I let others breed to my horses. Not often but I do. Now and again I open my horses up publicly. Thing is on the very very few SWS horses that I sell or gift if one is culled after the time spent making it. I am going to get a little irritated. Like most I hope I am alerted when the horse comes up for sale so I can have the chance to get it. I have grabbed a few that was going to reclaims before as sales from others. I rarely let my horses leave so this idea frightens me. What if I want the horse back? It is out of my reach and poor staff gets to hear about it.
    Back under my rock I go

Log in to reply

Looks like your connection to EQUUS | Forum was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.